Drops and Heroes - Guild Wars Forums

Grenths Ire · Sep 23, 2007, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Ok, this is really kind of bugging me. But I think it is entirely UNCOOL and UNFAIR that Heroes soak drops. I guess I am not really upset about gold sharing; but if we have to equip Heroes with weapons and inscriptions and runes, why do they soak drops?

If you go out exploring with 3 Heroes and 4 Henchman, I think you should realistically have a 50% chance of getting the drops, four chances in eight.

I dunno, maybe I am just whining. I love the concept of Heroes, it beats PUGs straight up.

meh, help me anet... i am confused again.

Heimdallw32 · Sep 23, 2007, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Loot splitting happens whether you're with 7 AI players or 7 real players. It's a balancing factor.

HawkofStorms · Sep 23, 2007, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Also, with loot scaling, you technically get the same number of drops with a party of 7 people or by yourself farming (although that way you don't have to split gold drops).

Fril Estelin · Sep 23, 2007, 09:08 PM // 21:08

IMHO the OP's point has been missed. Let me rephrase, if I may: it's unfair that loot is scaled with heroes while we have to pay for their runes, armor and weapons. They (virtually) get loot and then it disappears, while they keep what we buy them.

It's one point I've been wandering for ages, since I've got heroes I had more and more problems buying stuff, it's like managing 4 (or even 10) accounts at the same time!

I'm sure the loot scaling could be more fair (I don't know if it's only me or not, but I can often see drops appear for a split second and then disappear, thus sending me the frustrating message that I got unlucky when the random function was called ...), as suggested by the OP a group of 8, with you, 3 of your heroes and 4 henchmen, could give you 50% of the loot.

Mohnzh · Oct 11, 2007, 05:43 PM // 17:43

I think this is actually a loot sharing issue, not a loot scaling issue. There has always been loot sharing in groups of eight (even before the implementation of loot scaling) so that if you went out with 7 henchmen you would only see 1/8 the drops. But now that heroes have been introduced, this should be changed. It is the players responsibility to outfit the hero, and the hero will never spend the gold shared with it on itself. Because of that, would it not make sense for any loot randomly shared with heroes to be reassigned to us?

I also think that this should be moved to Riverside or Sardelac.

EDIT: I forgot to discuss the pitfalls of reassigning hero loot.
1) This would allow a person to make a LOT more money with much greater ease than even a solo farmer.
2) PUGs would rarely be more than 2 people because everyone will want to use heroes for their loot.
3) A group that forms that only needs one or two more will then be full of members fighting over who gets to bring the hero(es).
In other words, a lot of downfalls. Maybe a better suggestion would be to give us their share of the gold at the least.

tommarrow · Oct 11, 2007, 07:08 PM // 19:08

The heroes help you kill the monsters they should get their share of the drops. If you don't like paying to equip heroes then bring hench or join a pug.

quickmonty · Oct 11, 2007, 07:17 PM // 19:17

If you don't like the expense of equiping heroes then use henchmen or party with real players but PLEASE stop whining about it. You are not the first to do so on these forums either.

/count down timer begins .........................

Whirlwind · Oct 11, 2007, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Or do you mean drop rate with heroes vs with humans? It could be construed either way.

Crom The Pale · Oct 11, 2007, 11:50 PM // 23:50

The scalling works just fine.

IF you take away the drops from heros then you creat 4man farming that would lead to far to easy aquission of wealth. Gold would be so easy to farm then inflation would drive prices through the roof.

If you do not wish heros to take your drops, leave them behind and go solo

dargon · Oct 12, 2007, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Koss is a greedy bastard, he's saving up for a ring for the love of his life (his hair)

Smile Like Umean It · Oct 12, 2007, 03:50 AM // 03:50

The drawback of having heroes is that yes, you end up outfitting them with runes, insigs, and weapons.
The benefit is you outfit them with runes, insigs, weapons and skills.
You have them customized 100% the way you see fit. They do their fair share of work every time they go out, they get their cut.

You don't have to use or kit them if you don't want. Hell, you don't even have to unlock them. It's your choice.

I don't know about you guys' heroes, but mine function just as well from giving them crap I picked off the ground compared to the ones kitted through buying runes, insigs, and rare golds and greens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dargon

Koss is a greedy bastard, he's saving up for a ring for the love of his life (his hair)

Don't talk about The Koss. He'll know.
<.<

shanaya · Oct 12, 2007, 08:36 AM // 08:36

I think that this is a good point and an important criticism of the hero system that Anet could greatly improve. I think (and I have said this several times before) that there should be 'hero accounts' in which the gold from their drops accumulates. This can then be used to buy items for the heroes ONLY. Any item bought using gold from the 'hero account' would be tagged so that it can only be utilised by a hero. Sale of hero items would return gold to their account.

Cargan · Oct 12, 2007, 12:10 PM // 12:10

I think the loot sharing is fine. you do 1/8 of the work, you get 1/8 of the loot.

The thing I would like to see to stop having to spend money on heroes is allowing customisation of their armour in the same way you can customise PvP character armour, ie. if a rune/insignia is unlocked it can be added to the armour through the same method as a PvP character. Also allowing to change the hero armour depending on which ones you have unlocked for them would be nice.

pros:
It would give PvE players a reason to try their hand at PvP to get faction to unlock runes/insignias.
It would be somewhat consistent with the skills as you don't have to buy skills for your heroes if your account has unlocked them.
It would stop people moaning about having to spend money on heroes.

cons:
Salvaging runes/insignias from hero armour would have to be disabled.
May lead to people begging for the same to be done with weapons (which would not work the same)

hmm, sorry for going off topic sort of. that thought just kept going. but yeah, agreed with points above. If hero loot was for yourself then the game economy and farming would get out of hand. you'd get people farming with 3 heroes in tow and getting 4x as much gold: more than before loot scaling. Then because you'd be able to farm with heroes, every player in GW would become a farmer. I want to stop thinking about this.

HawkofStorms · Oct 12, 2007, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Again, a lot of people are missing the point. With loot scaling, you get the same amount of drops now with heros or without them.

So it DOESN"T MATTER anymore. Yes, you still have to equip them, but they don't need runes and perfect weapons. Collectors or those imperfect golds you get from the free treasure chests are good enough.

Fril Estelin · Oct 15, 2007, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Yes, you still have to equip them, but they don't need runes and perfect weapons.

Interesting, I thought that heroes' bonuses (runes or weapon upgrades) would play exactly the same role as the one put on non-hero characters. Is there a different game mechanics here?

I'd tend to think that there is not, since when I've added a major rune of protection prayer to Talhkora, she started being killed quite often!

Anyway, thanks for providing any answer on this topic (it may make me feel a little less overloaded with things to buy for my heroes

tommarrow · Oct 15, 2007, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Once you added the major rune to Talhorka her HP dropped by 35. Monsters go after the character with the lowest HP first.

Fril Estelin · Oct 15, 2007, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommarrow

Once you added the major rune to Talhorka her HP dropped by 35. Monsters go after the character with the lowest HP first.

Thanks for the reply. I know that, it's basically as with a non-hero character (HP drops by 75). I was wondering whether there's something specific to heroes with regards to runes and armor bonuses (as suggested by HawkofStorms).

John Panda · Oct 15, 2007, 06:20 PM // 18:20

i think a good idea would that all the gold and drops the heros take should be given to the heros but only allowing to spend that stuff on heros.
so they turn into mini people in a sense.. whatever they soak up can only be used on them customized for heros like bonus weapons.

i think that would be interesting 0:

HawkofStorms · Oct 15, 2007, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Thanks for the reply. I know that, it's basically as with a non-hero character (HP drops by 75). I was wondering whether there's something specific to heroes with regards to runes and armor bonuses (as suggested by HawkofStorms).

Nah. Reread my post. What I mean is you don't need to equip runes and insignas on heroes because they operate perfectly well without them. I can play in HM Realm of Torment with heroes and hench.
Ie, runes and insignas CAN help with heroes, but their application is not neccessary to make them useable.

OlMurraniKasale · Oct 15, 2007, 09:05 PM // 21:05

I was just happy to see ANY gold drops when I revisited Elona after so many weeks of playing GWEN. I didn't mind sharing some of it then, but when you get maybe 300 gold total in an EOTN area (which is then shared), you get to thinking . . . humm, that hero soaks up my gold from the ground, soaks up my gold from my wallet when I upgrade their armor/weapons/whatever, and soaks up my time (which is money) too. And all they do is stand there watching as the mobs blast the crap out of me or run amok towards some mob out of range.

The funny thing is, they work better than players sometimes.

Sep 23, 2007, 05:35 PM // 17:35	#1
Grenths Ire Academy Page Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lexington, Ky Profession: N/	Drops and Heroes Ok, this is really kind of bugging me. But I think it is entirely UNCOOL and UNFAIR that Heroes soak drops. I guess I am not really upset about gold sharing; but if we have to equip Heroes with weapons and inscriptions and runes, why do they soak drops? If you go out exploring with 3 Heroes and 4 Henchman, I think you should realistically have a 50% chance of getting the drops, four chances in eight. I dunno, maybe I am just whining. I love the concept of Heroes, it beats PUGs straight up. meh, help me anet... i am confused again.

Oct 11, 2007, 05:43 PM // 17:43	#5
Mohnzh Krytan Explorer Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Might find me roaming around doing missions in hard mode...or maybe I'm lost in the Underworld... Guild: [KCOR] Profession: Mo/	I think this is actually a loot sharing issue, not a loot scaling issue. There has always been loot sharing in groups of eight (even before the implementation of loot scaling) so that if you went out with 7 henchmen you would only see 1/8 the drops. But now that heroes have been introduced, this should be changed. It is the players responsibility to outfit the hero, and the hero will never spend the gold shared with it on itself. Because of that, would it not make sense for any loot randomly shared with heroes to be reassigned to us? I also think that this should be moved to Riverside or Sardelac. EDIT: I forgot to discuss the pitfalls of reassigning hero loot. 1) This would allow a person to make a LOT more money with much greater ease than even a solo farmer. 2) PUGs would rarely be more than 2 people because everyone will want to use heroes for their loot. 3) A group that forms that only needs one or two more will then be full of members fighting over who gets to bring the hero(es). In other words, a lot of downfalls. Maybe a better suggestion would be to give us their share of the gold at the least. Last edited by Mohnzh; Oct 11, 2007 at 05:50 PM // 17:50..

Sep 23, 2007, 06:46 PM // 18:46	#2
Heimdallw32 Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: United States of America Guild: The Seven Deadly [Sins]	Loot splitting happens whether you're with 7 AI players or 7 real players. It's a balancing factor.

Sep 23, 2007, 08:41 PM // 20:41	#3
HawkofStorms Hall Hero Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: E/	Also, with loot scaling, you technically get the same number of drops with a party of 7 people or by yourself farming (although that way you don't have to split gold drops).

Sep 23, 2007, 09:08 PM // 21:08	#4
Fril Estelin So Serious... Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: London Guild: Nerfs Are [WHAK] Profession: E/	IMHO the OP's point has been missed. Let me rephrase, if I may: it's unfair that loot is scaled with heroes while we have to pay for their runes, armor and weapons. They (virtually) get loot and then it disappears, while they keep what we buy them. It's one point I've been wandering for ages, since I've got heroes I had more and more problems buying stuff, it's like managing 4 (or even 10) accounts at the same time! I'm sure the loot scaling could be more fair (I don't know if it's only me or not, but I can often see drops appear for a split second and then disappear, thus sending me the frustrating message that I got unlucky when the random function was called ...), as suggested by the OP a group of 8, with you, 3 of your heroes and 4 henchmen, could give you 50% of the loot.

Oct 11, 2007, 07:08 PM // 19:08	#6
tommarrow Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Dec 2005 Guild: Shyft Machine [MYTH] Profession: E/	The heroes help you kill the monsters they should get their share of the drops. If you don't like paying to equip heroes then bring hench or join a pug.

Oct 11, 2007, 07:17 PM // 19:17	#7
quickmonty Ancient Windbreaker Join Date: May 2005	If you don't like the expense of equiping heroes then use henchmen or party with real players but PLEASE stop whining about it. You are not the first to do so on these forums either. /count down timer begins .........................

Oct 11, 2007, 10:49 PM // 22:49	#8
Whirlwind Krytan Explorer Join Date: Aug 2007 Guild: Wolven Empire Profession: D/	Or do you mean drop rate with heroes vs with humans? It could be construed either way.

Oct 11, 2007, 11:50 PM // 23:50	#9
Crom The Pale Furnace Stoker Join Date: Nov 2006 Guild: Ageis Ascending Profession: W/	The scalling works just fine. IF you take away the drops from heros then you creat 4man farming that would lead to far to easy aquission of wealth. Gold would be so easy to farm then inflation would drive prices through the roof. If you do not wish heros to take your drops, leave them behind and go solo

Oct 12, 2007, 03:18 AM // 03:18	#10
dargon Furnace Stoker Join Date: May 2005 Guild: The Seraphim Knights [TSK] Profession: R/	Koss is a greedy bastard, he's saving up for a ring for the love of his life (his hair)

Oct 12, 2007, 08:36 AM // 08:36	#12
shanaya Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Nov 2005 Guild: Scouts of Tyria Profession: R/	I think that this is a good point and an important criticism of the hero system that Anet could greatly improve. I think (and I have said this several times before) that there should be 'hero accounts' in which the gold from their drops accumulates. This can then be used to buy items for the heroes ONLY. Any item bought using gold from the 'hero account' would be tagged so that it can only be utilised by a hero. Sale of hero items would return gold to their account.

Oct 12, 2007, 12:10 PM // 12:10	#13
Cargan Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Scotland Guild: [ESP] Profession: W/	I think the loot sharing is fine. you do 1/8 of the work, you get 1/8 of the loot. The thing I would like to see to stop having to spend money on heroes is allowing customisation of their armour in the same way you can customise PvP character armour, ie. if a rune/insignia is unlocked it can be added to the armour through the same method as a PvP character. Also allowing to change the hero armour depending on which ones you have unlocked for them would be nice. pros: It would give PvE players a reason to try their hand at PvP to get faction to unlock runes/insignias. It would be somewhat consistent with the skills as you don't have to buy skills for your heroes if your account has unlocked them. It would stop people moaning about having to spend money on heroes. cons: Salvaging runes/insignias from hero armour would have to be disabled. May lead to people begging for the same to be done with weapons (which would not work the same) hmm, sorry for going off topic sort of. that thought just kept going. but yeah, agreed with points above. If hero loot was for yourself then the game economy and farming would get out of hand. you'd get people farming with 3 heroes in tow and getting 4x as much gold: more than before loot scaling. Then because you'd be able to farm with heroes, every player in GW would become a farmer. I want to stop thinking about this.

Oct 12, 2007, 02:40 PM // 14:40	#14
HawkofStorms Hall Hero Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: E/	Again, a lot of people are missing the point. With loot scaling, you get the same amount of drops now with heros or without them. So it DOESN"T MATTER anymore. Yes, you still have to equip them, but they don't need runes and perfect weapons. Collectors or those imperfect golds you get from the free treasure chests are good enough.

Oct 15, 2007, 03:44 PM // 15:44	#16
tommarrow Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Dec 2005 Guild: Shyft Machine [MYTH] Profession: E/	Once you added the major rune to Talhorka her HP dropped by 35. Monsters go after the character with the lowest HP first.

Oct 15, 2007, 06:20 PM // 18:20	#18
John Panda Krytan Explorer Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: in my house Guild: The Arctic Maruarders [TAM] Profession: A/	i think a good idea would that all the gold and drops the heros take should be given to the heros but only allowing to spend that stuff on heros. so they turn into mini people in a sense.. whatever they soak up can only be used on them customized for heros like bonus weapons. i think that would be interesting 0:

Oct 15, 2007, 09:05 PM // 21:05	#20
OlMurraniKasale Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Seattle Guild: Zaishen Order Profession: Rt/	I was just happy to see ANY gold drops when I revisited Elona after so many weeks of playing GWEN. I didn't mind sharing some of it then, but when you get maybe 300 gold total in an EOTN area (which is then shared), you get to thinking . . . humm, that hero soaks up my gold from the ground, soaks up my gold from my wallet when I upgrade their armor/weapons/whatever, and soaks up my time (which is money) too. And all they do is stand there watching as the mobs blast the crap out of me or run amok towards some mob out of range. The funny thing is, they work better than players sometimes.